Oracle Mission + Main Net Timeline

#1

I’m sure it’s documented somewhere. I mean the landing page reads:

Oracles Network is open to any participant. There is no censorship for transactions. It’s an Ethereum platform with better speed and lower price for contracts. You can start your own network based on Oracles Network.

Does this mean we in fact will be a “competitor” with the main ethereum network, while at the same time using their exact infrastructure. People will choose to deploy their dApp on Oracle rather than on the Ethereum mainnet because of speed and price advantages correct? So essentially we are both a competitor as well as an evangelizer of the Ethereum blockchain because we are a sub-market as an alternative option for people developing on their chain.

Also, I assume there will not be a faucet for the main oracle network and all tokens created will be through mining. What are we calling these tokens… like OETH? Should I be helping push forward the dApp in charge of registering my Payout key? Or does official mining not start until we launch production?

Sorry for so many questions, again, you’ve probably addressed these somewhere else so if you’d point me to the correct paper or article to read that would be great. Thanks :slight_smile:

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#2

I can see this project being useful for potential unforeseen types of applications and also as running experiment.
I am asking the same kind of question for chains like Expanse, Ubiq, ETC and I cannot understand why would someone want to fork ETH network without any exciting improvements.
Oracles could be used for all kind of forks of small and large systems. I suppose that one of our goals is to build a framework for other people’s use cases. Imagine, if you are a small or large organization and you would like to have your decentralized network where only certain people can be trusted(example: Amazon supply chain). For that type of application, I believe that PoA is perfect consensus engine. Oracles could be the first PoA mainnet chain that is running this experiment to see what kind of problems we might face when you run this type of network that will hold some real value.
We have 2 PoA live networks right now - Kovan and Rinkeby. Maybe something else which I’m not aware of. The sole purpose of Kovan and Rinkeby is to provide reliable testnet for ethereum developers. However, you can’t build production apps in that network because Kether doesn’t hold any real value. A chain has to be valuable in order to be battle tested against hacker’s attacks, etc. In order to prove that corporations and goverments could use PoA network to replicate some of their services, they have to see already proven example of something that already works. We are taking a risk to prove it.

We see that many organizations can the see value of blockchain systems, but they don’t know where to start, they don’t want to run any expensive PoW mining rigs. with PoA they can easily spin mining network, run regular nodes to build their own “decentralized” system with centralized mining, governance(voting), etc.

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#3

Does this mean we in fact will be a “competitor” with the main ethereum network, while at the same time using their exact infrastructure.

We can be competitors with the primary Ethereum network, but it is not our goal. We don’t need to be a fat protocol to be successful. It will be good if people will start to build all type of applications on top of Oracles Network, but I do not oversee it as the primary goal.

At the moment, we are looking for use cases. Many networks focused on inside needs, e.g., how to create the network itself. We have an advantage here because we decided to work on Parity and fully committed to it. It doesn’t mean that we do not contribute.

Use cases I’d like to explore on Oracles

  • identity (obviously, because it’s a part of our consensus)
  • crowdfunding (ICO Wizard, Howey Test)
  • real estate transaction (good use case for interledgers)

Also, I assume there will not be a faucet for the main oracle network and all tokens created will be through mining.

The main network will not have a free faucet. Because the network will be connected to exchanges it doesn’t make sense to have free coins.

All tokens (coins) after launch will be created with mining. In genesis block will be included initial liquidity which will be sold before in form of ERC20 immobilized tokens. Thus, value for mined coins will be created.

What are we calling these tokens… like OETH?

Good suggestion to add O or ON prefix to commonly used Ethereum denominations. Oeth, Owei etc. We should put in on voting.

Should I be helping push forward the dApp in charge of registering my Payout key? Or does official mining not start until we launch production?

Mining will not start until the launch of the mainnet. For the testnet you generated mining, payout, and voting key. A script on your node transfer mined coins from your mining key to the payout key. You can check it out.

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#4

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking that perhaps there was some sort of registration I would need to do with my individual node but you’re right, on my “Payout” wallet there is 0.099417 Oeth on there. Cool :slight_smile:

So, speaking of the node. I’m now a little curious of the protocol for how the blocks get mined. Does it work as a traditional pool of transactions and just the fastest machine that can grab and compile them wins the block? Or is there something in the protocol that requires equal work amongst the nodes. Basically is it possible for one of the node owners to buy a bigger instance on azure and take most of the mining pool for themselves? Or what are the details on how that gets sorted out?

Also, after my initial credits run out on azure that I got for signing up, is there anyway to get azure credits to pay for my instance? I understand that once the mainnet goes live that it won’t matter because the token itself will hold value and can be used to pay hosting costs. This is more of a question for in the meantime, or possibly if the token doesn’t get valued high enough to cover server costs.

Oracles could be the first PoA mainnet chain that is running this experiment to see what kind of problems we might face when you run this type of network that will hold some real value… We see that many organizations can the see value of blockchain systems, but they don’t know where to start.

Thanks for all your time answering these questions. So I understand the quest to develop out the power of PoA for people/groups that want federated chains rather than just open mining pools, now I’m a little curious to where your money play comes in. Is it mainly in holding the Oeth coins themselves and seeing them appreciate? Or are you planning to use this project to get consulting type of business from these other enterprises down the road? I thought I remember seeing a blog post or article somewhere detailing how to create a fork of your PoA network somewhere else as well, so feels like you’re doing more of a “open source” type of project.

It’s probably a little everything, and honestly it doesn’t really matter to me, this is more of just for my own curiosity of what is driving forward such awesome work.

Thanks for the help in understanding, I like the project lots and think it’s cool.

#5

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking that perhaps there was some sort of registration I would need to do with my individual node, but you’re right, on my “Payout” wallet there is 0.099417 Oeth on there. Cool :slight_smile:

Something went wrong with your payout script. A restart of the system may cause it. Now we have a more advanced script, and please consider to reinstall your VM. You don’t need to generate keys, just install one more node and delete the old one. Instruction to delete https://github.com/oraclesorg/oracles-wiki#delete-mining-node

I can observe your mining wallet here https://oraclesorg.github.io/oracles-dapps-validators/ and I see that you have 35806.49684351559375 OETH you received from mining and tx fees.
http://testnet.oracles.org:4000/account/0x58bad7cf29428c3d17cb859f5c580d3c25f134cd

Numbers are not finished, but let’s do some math

  • Number of validators 25
  • Number of active validators per year 15
  • Emission 2.5%
  • Raised funds before the network launch 100,000 ETH (hard cap)

Each validator will create value equal to 167 ETH per year. If the price will stay at the same level. And I hope it will go up because we will use raised funds for R&D and building use cases I mentioned before.

Also, after my initial credits run out on azure that I got for signing up, is there anyway to get azure credits to pay for my instance? I understand that once the mainnet goes live that it won’t matter because the token itself will hold value and can be used to pay hosting costs. This is more of a question for in the meantime, or possibly if the token doesn’t get valued high enough to cover server costs.

Mainnet will require more resources. And you also will need to have a testnet, or even few testnets to test hard forks. I plan to buy Azure credits and distribute them to validators for the six months of operation.

Or are you planning to use this project to get consulting type of business from these other enterprises down the road?
PoA is a very inexpensive mechanism for public blockchains. We should prove it. Securing main net costs 6B USD for the general public in rewards for miners, tx fees, electricity, mining equipment. Our goal is to make a public network with features of cryptocurrency and platform for smart contracts by 2-3 order of magnitude.

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#6

Interesting, so that is the correct address for my mining address, but not my payout. These funds should be in my payout correct? I’ve restarted my VM and I’ll look for the Oeth to start accruing in my Payouts address. But if it keeps it in the default mining address is that even a problem? I can control that account just fine. I guess my question is why do we even have these different accounts? Why not just work off a single one? The only reason I could see if for better anonymity during voting (harder to tie each person’s vote with who that actual person’s public notary info) – is that the reason?

The next issue has to do with costs yes, I don’t mean for all this to sound petty, just trying to make sure I understand the options. Right now it looks like the betta is going to cost around $50 a month to run:
27 PM

Are you saying you’ll be distributing these Azure credits only after the initial token sale correct because they will rely on the ETH raised? In that case would it be alright for the beta-nodes to pause until like 1 month before to official launch so as to save on the $50 a month costs for keeping the servers up?

Again, not trying to be a nuisance, just trying to get a feel for my options. I’ve re-launched my VM through Azure again, and will be watching my “Payout” wallet along with my “Mining” wallet to see if it starts switching. Thanks for your patience and help in understanding the system.

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#7

Also, quick follow up that it looks like some other nodes are effected by my same issue, namely:
@jflowers, @henryvishnevsky
You guys both have over 40,000+ OETH in your accounts like me, when most everyone else has in the neighborhood of 500-600.

#8

Hi @johndangerstorey,
could you tell me your node’s IP address, I’ll have a look what might have gone wrong with your payout key.

#9

These funds should be in my payout correct?

Each day a script on your mining node sends mined coins from your mining key to your payout key. It mitigates a risk of losing your mined coins if your node being hacked. Your mining key is exposed on your mining node. It’s unlikely that someone can get access to your node without your cooperation or security incident. In case of an incident, your mined coins will be safe. Payout key is a optional key.

Are you saying you’ll be distributing these Azure credits only after the initial token sale correct because they will rely on the ETH raised?

Now you should’ve had $200 credits from Azure. Please do not turn off your mining node and send me an Ethereum or Bitcoin address. I’ll send you some coins to keep your node running.
That is also applicable to other validators.

#10

Yes, I have those initial $200 in credits. Okay I’ll reach out again when they run out… I am thinking they run out after the first month, but if they keep going that would be ideal. Sounds good and thank you.

#11

Trying to understand … Oracles Network shall:

  1. be a fork of the kovan testnet using Parity AuthorityRound PoA consensus mechanism – will read spec but assume akin to round robin semantics or one that chooses validator randomly so distribution of block mine/sign/reward is statistically the equal over time

  2. consist of 12 validators initially but may contain up to 50 ( why the Notary requirement … is echo of proof of identity use case? validators staking reputation as Notaries thus assume liability as validators? )

  3. Validators will have to run nodes in production are there any minimum specs for these nodes … any estimates on cost of running a validator node in production?

  4. have an “OETH” token will derive value from the Oracles Network ICO 100,000 ETH? So OETH is backed by ETH? Are the ICO funds held in escrow? Will there be transaction fees on the network, if so where do they go to the validators or to the “network”?

Observations – can see that Oracles Network PoA blockchain provides same underlying service/utility of Ethereum w/o some of the draw backs but there seems to be a want of a clear use case and a “Field of Dreams” mindset … if we build it they will come, not a criticism but a concern. Finally there is this notion that PoA paradigm humanizes the blockchain, which I like, find important and is why I am here asking questions.

Thanks in advance for your time.

John

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#12

be a fork of the kovan testnet using Parity AuthorityRound PoA consensus mechanism

I believe that is correct.

consist of 12 validators initially but may contain up to 50

Yes, I believe that is correct.

estimates on cost of running a validator node in production

Cost of running is already explained above ~$50/month.

So OETH is backed by ETH?

Oeth is not backed by any other coin. It’s a coin itself like Eth. Keth would be great example. Others: EXP, UBQ. But keep in mind EXP and UBQ use PoW consensus, thus not making any improvements over Mainnet ETH

Are the ICO funds held in escrow?

What ICO funds?

Will there be transaction fees on the network,

Yes, like in any other ETH based network. Tx fees like in any other network go to miners, hence validators.

Disclaimer: I’m not a creator of this network, I answer those questions based on my own understanding of this network, if I answer incorrectly, please forgive me :slight_smile:

#13

Thanks for prompt reply!

How does one interpret:

“Raised funds before the network launch 100,000 ETH (hard cap)”

Will look at KETH for better insights into ‘OETH’ value mechanism.

John

#14

I guess @igorbarinov can explain what he meant by

Raised funds before the network launch 100,000 ETH (hard cap)

I’m also confused

#15

be a fork of the kovan testnet using Parity AuthorityRound PoA consensus mechanism – will read spec but assume akin to round robin semantics or one that chooses validator randomly so distribution of block mine/sign/reward is statistically the equal over time

We will migrate to Tindermint by Parity when it is ready. At the moment, its AutorityRound algorithm used in Kovan.

consist of 12 validators initially but may contain up to 50 ( why the Notary requirement … is echo of proof of identity use case? validators staking reputation as Notaries thus assume liability as validators? )

12 for the Testnet and 25 for the Mainnet. More validators mean that smaller reward for the same time for each validator.

Validators will have to run nodes in production are there any minimum specs for these nodes … any estimates on cost of running a validator node in production?

$50 for the testnet $100 for the main net. $150
Testnet and Mainnet can be sponsored by the Foundation. Please ping me in PM if you need it

have an “OETH” token will derive value from the Oracles Network ICO 100,000 ETH? So OETH is backed by ETH? Are the ICO funds held in escrow? Will there be transaction fees on the network, if so where do they go to the validators or to the “network”?

OETH is not baked by ETH.Initial supply of OETH included in the genesis block related to the amount of ETH sold to investors. A hard cap will be defined by coins sold on presale to early investors. E.g., if early investors will invest 1 ETH, the hard cap will be 7.5 ETH You can preview distribution here https://oracles.org/tokens . It’s not final.

if we build it they will come, not a criticism but a concern.

As an author of 1% of all transactions on the main ethereum network I know how expensive it is. For each transaction on the Ethereum network general public paid $115 to a miner. We can make it magintudes less expensive. This is the main business use case.

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#16

Thanks Igor, that clears things up … outside looking in Ethereum Network grossly inefficient, slow and expensive for what it is not … efficient data store/computation engine, so the value proposition of PoA Oracles Network and what it is ( services/utility it provides ) intuitivy resonates with me.

Any public info on how to participate in presale?

What is probability that validator on testnet becomes validator on mainnet or any other financial/poisitional/inertial incentive to join on testnet level as validator i.e. access to presale?

Thanks again for your time/patience.

john

#17

Keying off “oath” and OAuth, a ticker OTH is shorter and stands more on its own. A cursory check indicates that it may be available.

#18

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