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Will transaction fees remain so low? (how?)

Hey - currently it says on the website that 1000tx cost less than $1.
I assume there can be now guarantees about this for the future? If usage would pick up and blocks would get full, fees would simply rise, right?

We are considering to use this network for the https://joincircles.net/ project.

Slightly off-topic: for the Circles usecase it is not a significant advantage to have (x)DAI as the base currency because it is about creating a new (basic income based) currency. We would simply pay txfees for user (in the beginning) with meta-transactions. So given that - what are the arguments for using POA network vs. xDAI?

We want to build a Circles wallet based on the burner wallet. Is it in some form easier/ better supported to do this on xDAI or could it also be done on POA?

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Hi Martin,
nice to have you here.

We are considering to use this network for the https://joincircles.net/ project.

Very excited in the opportunity to have Circles on xDai/POA.

I assume there can be now guarantees about this for the future?

Each validator can set the gas fee individually.
There are 10 validators [POA, MakerDAO, Giveth, Protofire, BurnerWallet, Portis, MetaCartel, Syncnode, Ztake.org, lab10 Collective).
There is no guarantee that all will follow the same strategy and keep the price as it is.
Although they install their nodes with recommended settings.
Due to the psychological effect known as Default Effect they will follow the default settings.

There are no plans to increase transaction fees.
There are possible DoS attacks on the scarce resources of block capacity by spamming low fees transactions.
There are ways to prevent in a transaction queue with prioritization and per validator limits, vertical and horizontal scalability.

Here is an image of how horizontal scaling might work for xDai


Via vertical scalability:

  • Validators can scale up nodes and enhance parameters of the chain (block size, block time)
  • Validators subsidize essential dapps/ OPCODEs.
    E.g. xDai Bridge on xDai is the essential app and it’s subsidized by all validators.
    They accept transactions to mint/burn xDai with 0 gas fee and with priority,
  • Optimization of the protocol by the core team.
    E.g. optimization of priority queue specific for networks with high number orf transactions.

Via horizontal scalability

The security model of xDai is highly scalable. Each next network doesn’t directly reduce the security model of xDai. After migration to POSDAO DPOS consensus all horizontal chains will use a multichain staking token with the same emission curve.

If usage would pick up and blocks would get full fees would simply rise, right?

Not really.
Transactions will wait in mempool.
Some transactions will get more priority.

Slightly off-topic: for the Circles usecase it is not a significant advantage to have (x)DAI as the base currency because it is about creating a new (basic income based) currency. We would simply pay txfees for user (in the beginning) with meta-transactions.

I see. Meta transactions will work well on both POA and xDai. Likely you will pay 50x less for gas fees on POA although it’s not significant.

On POA we have a project running by Grassroots Economics with local Kenyan currencies used by thousands of people in the country. You can read about here https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-31/closing-the-cash-gap-with-cryptocurrency

Please let me know if you’d like to have an intro with Will Ruddick from Grassroot

So given that - what are the arguments for using POA network vs. xDAI?

We are separating use cases between POA and xDai.
They can be used for anything people will deploy.
Although, in our funding of projects and support

  • xDai is a sidechain for payments
  • POA is a sidechain for blockchain games

on POA we have the POA Games Fund, helping games developers.
The game number one by the rating of State of the Dapps, Geon, is running on POA

on xDai we plan to upgrade to more inclusive DPOS Sybil control/reward distribution with underlying HoneybadgerBFT consensus which is important for future censorship resistance.

We want to build a Circles wallet based on the burner wallet. Is it in some form easier/ better supported to do this on xDAI or could it also be done on POA?

BurnerWallet is working on xDai with support of balances in ETH. I heard you are in contact with Austing @austintgriffith already.

Please consider talking with Poketto team, which created xDai iOS (and Android soon) opensource wallet built with BurnerWallet inspirations.
Summoning Tiago from Poketto here @alvesjtiago to read about Circles project.

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:wave: Tiago from Poketto here.

Happy to jump on a call if you have any questions about building an xDAI or POA wallet. Perhaps an integration of Circles with Poketto could be interesting as well.

Would be nice to see a POA Core instance of Poketto. Do you have a link to your Github and suggestions to help build a native POA Core deployment so Poketto can be used with POA and POA tokens? Please post here so we can share with upcoming projects and development teams. Thanks in advance!

Of course @1proof! All the code can be found at https://github.com/pokettocash/.

Here are the links to the repos of the apps:

Yes, the question is where in the Poketto Github repo must changes be made to support POA Core? Perhaps you could provide link with example diffs inside the android repo to which changes will need addressing to support POA Core. Thanks!